Leadership Meeting

We are going to leave the meeting today from our separate locations, so we won't be back together. Before I share, just real briefly, because I promised Pastor Scotty to have a good chunk of time, I'm going to ask you to do a little tiny, I need about five or six folks. I only have one of these today, not twenty-five like last time. I'd like you to do this right now for me. This is regarding the Saturday evening service that we believe the Lord is directing us to begin in the early fall. And I'd like to get some input from you. Do you know that, I may have told you this one other time, demographic experts tell us that our area is the fastest growing area by far in the state of Pennsylvania and the third fastest in the whole eastern United States, north of Atlanta. It's the third fastest growing area in the whole eastern United States, north of Atlanta. This area. If you drive down from Cranberry, you know what I'm talking about. It's incredible what's happening up there. Now, therefore, let me walk you through this. Since you're going to read it anyhow, let me read it for you and with you, and you mark it. You got your pens? Do you have a desire to have a vehicle for sharing the truths of the gospel with people who aren't interested in church? In other words, now listen, I need your honest opinion. Notice it's anonymous, so if you say something you're really feeling, you don't think I want to hear it, it's alright, put it on there. In other words, when you're done with your testimony, what do you do next? Would you like to have a place where people who don't know Christ, who maybe his whole idea of church was they grew up in a denominational church that was dead, and they think that's what church is, and they need to hear the gospel from another point of view, they need to hear the message of life in a different way, yes or no. Do you need a vehicle for that? Do you already have a vehicle for that? So they can go to hear the gospel in another way, in relevant ways. Always feel free to add a comment if you don't want to just say yes or no. Number two, do you feel that they would be interested in a service that is fairly non-religious, that is message-centered, in other words, the biblical message would be the basic ingredient of the time, with creative music, drama, testimonies, etc., to reinforce a particular theme. Would you be supportive of such a service for the purpose, now please catch this, the purpose is not for you to come and say, oh, I've gone to church this week. The purpose would be, the whole purpose of it would be to have a place to bring people who don't know Christ. Very important, the purpose of it. Now I'm not saying that you couldn't come without somebody, but you know when you came that that wasn't the purpose of that. Number four, what ingredients of such a service would enhance your desire? Dennis? It's all related to Saturday evening. A little shorter services, sometimes people say 90 minutes, a long time to sit. Remember we went two hours and 15 minutes last Wednesday night, right? On there I put anonymity. I don't know if I spelled that correctly, it looks like it might be. What do I mean by that? Well, whereas Pastor Scott or I make a very big deal about recognizing visitors and what have you, people could come as your guest and they wouldn't have to declare that they're a visitor, we wouldn't ask them to do that. Those kinds of things, we wouldn't have them wear name tags. You may not think that's important, I'd just like to know what you think. You're not voting really, you're just giving input, you're just helping us to know what you think. We want to serve you in your ministry to win the lost. That's what we want to do. We want to serve you in your ministry to win the lost. Other things that you'd like to see there, alright? Number five, would you prefer a Saturday evening service because it better fits your schedule? It makes things easier for your family? I've had a lot of folks tell me that. Or would you prefer it because it would be a comfortable time early, I'm talking very early, Saturday evening, not 7.30 or 8 o'clock, very early. Probably 6 or 6.30 so that the whole evening kind of is still available. Number six, how do you feel about a service that is especially designed for seekers? And that's a word we'll use. Seekers, in other words, the people that are coming are open. Do you know, let me just interject this and have your attention. Do you know that the percentage of people in church has gone down in the last ten years? Did you know that? It's just gone steadily down. Church attendance used to be at 46%, now it's down, I think it's to 40 or 41% over the last ten years. That includes all churches of all kinds. Do you know that, on the other hand, spiritual interest has gone up? George Gallup says that whereas ten years ago, 43% of the population said they were interested in God, something like 52% are saying, I'm interested in knowing more about God. Somehow or another, that population has to be touched. They're not going to church, but they're interested in God. They're everywhere. So how do you feel about a service that's designed for them? Good, let's go for it. Okay, but I'm not really sure what it means. Badly, I don't like the concept. When we have church, it should be for Christians. However you want to say that. Alright, and if there's anything you want to add, if you want to put your name and have me contact you later, I'll do it. We are very serious about making a decision on how this is going to look. At this point, it's wide open, so this is when you can share your input. Any other questions while we're doing this, Kent? Well, a couple of places there are. I've discovered, interestingly, around the country, that many charismatic churches realized that they were basically growing by picking up the people that were leaving their other churches in dissatisfaction. And we were not unlike that in lots of ways. We've been blessed to see some conversion growth, but not nearly the kind we know that we're to do. I think that's evidenced in our baptisms. I don't like to say this, but if you were at our last couple of baptisms, you know what I'm talking about. It's people basically saying, I've been up and up for ten years, and I think the Lord's calling me to do this. Well, that's wonderful, but that's not what we're here to do. I mean, that's not our primary mission. Let me say it that way. That's not our primary mission. Yes. I don't think that that would have a big bearing on Sunday morning. I think Wednesday night will continue to be the time that we have much more opportunity to do the things that we feel we want to do in worship and in waiting on the Lord and so on. Yeah, what we're doing now. So you know, at the earlier service, there's a little more of an intensity level. And folks, if you don't see the fruit of this, then let's talk. Because one thing that's already happened. For example, in past years, when the summer came, the early service became the big service. I remember three years ago, when we first moved in this building, this was four years ago, the second service had 100 people in it. I remember it was almost so small that I was afraid we'd missed it. We had about 400 in the first and 100 in the second. I remember that clearly. And now, even though we've switched the times and it's summer, the second service is still the service that's significantly higher in attendance. And I think the reason for that is, is that people are, that's how they're slowly entering in to the tunnel of obedience. That's what they're doing. And they're getting their first tastes of what a living, lively church can be like without being totally overwhelmed by it. And I know that isn't comfortable. I know some of you wish that we had prophetic movement and long periods of responsive dance or something, but that is not going to happen on Sunday morning and be relevant to our culture. It won't happen. People just aren't there. They need to hear the message. And I think that the Lord is bearing fruit in that. So Sally, the answer to your question is, I think we'll be open to adapting to things some, depending on how the needs go. I don't know that, I don't see it going in a direction that would be less focused than that in a way. Okay? We'll have a children's ministry that night. That's part of it. Oh yeah. Don't do it then. You control it. Oh, absolutely. We may not even do it. We're praying for the Lord to confirm. I'm not committed to a certain way. That's one reason why I want to get your feedback. If you don't feel that this would be something you would support, then we're not going to do it. It's as simple as that. We feel we need to do something to make room. We know that. And I don't want to do three services on Sunday morning because then there will be an intensity, a pressure to boom, boom, boom. It's really difficult. This way, it's a different, and how many of you know, in our culture right here in Pittsburgh, people think, a lot of people think it's good on the Catholic Church. Now, an alternative to this, if we don't do something that's strictly a secret service, we would do something like we do in the second service Sunday morning. That's what it would be like. If we don't do one that's really this way, then we'll do one that's less this way. Whatever will serve your ability to evangelize and touch people, that's what we want to do. Yeah. Yes. Well, you're saying they go to church and they're not doing that, then I guess I'd categorize them as unsaved, and probably, in terms of the Church of Jesus, they're unchurched. I think a person who's sitting in a church pew filling up a niche and is dead in his spirit is unchurched. I think it's important, too, to remember that we're not talking about being somebody that we're not. There will be an authenticity about the Saturday night entry from the joy that's in us to the warmth that comes from us. We're not talking about putting on a show that's not of God or of us. It just means that for those who are in a transition, and everybody's in transition, this becomes yet another first step for many of those that we're getting to know in the world and in our community who are moving in from all over the country. You know it's happening. It's happening in a place where they can taste and see that the Lord is good. Yeah, yeah. How do people, how do they decide if they want to follow Christ if they don't know him? If I asked you, I said, Scott, I want you to give your life to Phil. Well, how much more likely would you be to give your life had a horrible reproach and he was caring and giving and sacrificial on your behalf versus if I just walked over and said, this is Phil, give your life to him. Many times when we evangelize that's what we do. We say, you need Christ, but they don't even know the Christ that we're telling them to give their lives to. There's always the uncertainty that I sense in you that are we watering down. The message will always be the same. It's the gospel. You're saved by grace through faith. You're a sinner separated from God by your failures and weakness. I think that God's given us the talent here, the spiritual gifts and the natural giftedness to present Christ in a way that people would want to know him and be convicted of their separation and desire to see him. I first was burdened by this about a year and a half ago when I got a group of about six people together, your peers, some of whom are here today and I asked them, do you bring people to church with you? And they said, no. And I said, well, why not? And every one of the six answered, well, I really like it, but my professional friends or my work friends or my neighbors wouldn't understand. I think there's something, and so what we're saying is, well, let's give them something that they would understand and let them discover Christ. That's the concept behind what we're thinking about. Jack? You know, when the 11 o'clock service, the second service began to change, I think there were many of us that struggled with that. I think there was a sense in our hearts that we weren't sure we wanted to give up what we had there. But I have to, and I think if each one of us thinks about it and looks in retrospect, we can, if you've been here over the period of time where the transition took place, I think you have to realize that before the transition, when Pastor Jay gave an invitation, you could count the responses on one hand in many cases. You know, numbers of responses were, you know, not the norm. Since the transition to what we're experiencing now, I mean, it's not unusual for there to be 10, 12 responses on a Sunday morning. And I just, the other thing I wanted to point out was exactly what Pastor Jay said is that people are bringing others now where before they were a little tentative about doing that because it was a little more intense than people are used to. And, you know, I just have to say that what God's doing here is a result of the leadership of our pastors. I say this in love and that is that God's raised these men up to lead us. And I believe that they're hearing from God. And, you know, as I sit and fill out that form, you know, there's something in me that sort of is uncertain about that. But I have to trust that as we pray for our leadership and as they seek God, they're hearing from Him. And that whatever happens in the fall, that as we continue to intercede on their behalf and as they continue to seek His face, we're going to have God's heart as we move on into the fall. I'm excited about what God's doing. I see, you know, just to see the people coming and to see, to hear, you know, when Jay asked for an invitation, I mean, we've had responses on Sunday morning of 20, 30 people. And we're making a turn. It's not, we're not, we're still getting people from other bodies. And I guess that's going to happen, you know, and that's fine. But the more important thing is the world that's out there that needs Jesus. And I see we're getting, we're beginning to get a greater portion of that. I just praise God for that. And I'm excited about what He's going to do in the fall. Thanks. If you were here Wednesday night, I think whatever's in you that needs that full expression, I mean, Wednesday night was glorious. Worship, and worship dance, and expression of, and folks, you know, we just have to allow that in a church of our size, we're going to have a multiplicity of expression. That's really what it comes down to. We're just too big of a church to have one thing and that's all we do. And I hope that's a positive to you because it means that there's lots of ways that things can happen, which I hope is encouraging to you. Alright, a couple more comments. Here goes, my teaching's now done, unfortunately. Go ahead, Brian. I will have the same message, I'll have the same message Saturday night as I do Sunday. I can't prepare two sermons for a weekend. Who said that? Sam, Sam said, oh, come on. No, I may have a couple different nuances or whatever. I sometimes do that now. At the first service on Sunday, I sometimes hit a little harder on people who I know have heard all this before. Sure, what we're trying to do is find ways to reinforce what message we feel the Lord has brought for that week. And you know, many times the drama will do that, but sometimes the testimony will do it better. Or sometimes, you know, there may be something I'll ask the people. Another thing we'll be doing, well, how many of you remember the message I did with the road signs on sex, all right? On what? Thank you. And those kinds of visual images are very important to community communicating with people. So that kind of thing will be more important. Yes? A couple days ago, someone from the church came up to me and said that they were working at North Hills Pasadena Hospital and they walked into a room where my mom was, she's a head nurse there, and she was nursing one of the patients. And they walked in and they were astounded to find my mom was testifying to the patient about North Way Christian Community and what a wonderful church it was. And three years ago, when I moved back up here to Pennsylvania, she would have absolutely nothing to do with North Way, was very concerned was under the impression that we were the pot banger type people. So I gave up asking her. So now, she'll come without an invitation, on her own. And she's out there testifying what a wonderful church this is, how much the people love people, what a good message it is, she talks about what a good pastor J is and his messages. She'll say, I still can't get into raising my hands and that dancing stuff. But I mean, this is a remarkable change and I've already seen one of my brothers come to the Lord, near the end of his life, because of the change. And I'm going to see my family saved one by one and I'm thankful for the changes that are happening. Because before, they wouldn't have anything to do with Christianity, or my life, or anything, because of raising your hand and stuff like that, which was spooky to them. Footnote, footnote, flash, news flash. I wondered why two or three women from the intensive care unit have come over the last six weeks or so. You see what happens, folks, that progression, beginning to put two and two together. One more. It was kind of funny, I had just came back in November and I hadn't been here for a full year and I remember walking into the service, it was 11 o'clock and we're singing all these hymns and I thought, I think I've walked into the wrong church because the environment from a year before was so different in terms of the movement of the spirit and everything. I remember my first, my attitude was like, what's going on here? This is really different from not having been here in so long. So I started talking to people and finding out why are we singing so many hymns and why does it feel so different and everything and I really didn't fully appreciate the change until I was assigned one of the new people who just became Christians and I sat with her and helped her find the, you know, it's in the front of the book or it's in the back of the book and what's the New Testament and the Old Testament and that's when I started bringing and having non-Christians and inviting them. I fully appreciated the changes because it wasn't an embarrassment, meaning sometimes you get embarrassed for the other people because you know that they're embarrassed and that was something that was absent and so it wasn't until I sat with, invited a number of non- Christian people that I fully appreciated it and that was a big change for me. Sure. I'll have to stand up and we can put the mic back there and they can't hear. I think one of the things is that people who don't know the Lord or love the Lord the way we do are going to be frightened by what we do and it's just us showing our love for the Lord but I think one of the things we need to remember is that he wants us to do what will minister for them and if that means change and change is difficult for everybody that you know we need to seriously consider that the gentlemen who are our pastors have been chosen very carefully by him and that we need to hold them up and to support them in the way that God's going to lead them but we really do need to maybe gear down to their level until they're sure of the Christ in us so that they're babies they have to be felled milk and then there's another step and another step and another step until they can glorify him the way we do. So it's real important that we whatever gear it down. Well we're talking about just one part of who we are and this isn't, Emil Brunner who's a very famous theologian that I particularly enjoyed in seminary days said as a fire exists by oxygen so the church exists by its mission so the church exists when you cut off the supply of oxygen to a fire what happens to it? When you cut the mission out of the church what is our mission? Jesus told us go and make disciples of every nation. When we stop doing that the church will die. It will die. And I think the underlying confidence you can have is that this has been a very long term process and I think as Jesus will we continue to adapt? The answer is yes. If God shows us that we're doing something that's not radical enough or it's too radical this way for the sake of the mission we'll adapt so that we can be fulfilling what God is saying. Folks let me tell you we have a wonderful you know how great our opportunity is right here? It is unbelievable. There could be we were talking we had a pastor's forum here last Tuesday. We could have scores of churches. We sat down and counted and we there's maybe 15 evangelical churches total in the North Hills. Let's say there was a thousand in every one of them which there aren't. It's more like a hundred or two hundred. There would be 15,000 people. Do you know how many people live in the North Hills? Do you know how many people are moving in and out of here? I mean it's a tidal wave. So let's not just put one little line out there okay? What's the best way to fish? Nets. Let's get the nets out there. That's all we're saying is get some nets out there. If one net isn't exactly the way you like it then move around a little bit and try a different one. I promise you that our goal is still to make radically committed devoted disciples to Jesus. That's our goal. I mean that's where we're going. The thing is the nets have got to be out there in a little different way to get them into the boat. Now if you've been a Christian for 20 years honestly I don't expect you to understand this. I expect you to be nervous, praying in tongues right now, asking God to forgive me. I mean all those things. But if you're Tim you're glad that we're trying to do these kinds of things. That's all I have to say to you. If you're Tim and you're people like Tim you're glad that somebody is being sensitive to where you're at. I look at Dennis and I say well Dennis and Veronica came when North Way was, we were jumping and shouting pretty much and they made it. But I remember Mack McCabe and Jim Franks and who else did you know? And Paul Gregg and if it hadn't been for Mack McCabe and Paul Gregg and some other people they wouldn't have made it. They had enough of a basis of relationship that they got through the question period of what is this all about? And that's the exception. It's really the exception and not the rule at this point. I think it can be a whole lot different. Relationship still is what is the bridge. No question about that. I think the possibility of people, I've seen lots of people and Scott has visited with lots and many of you have, that even with the relationship they perceive things as being a whole different realm than what they're ever going to get used to. And so that's what we're trying to be sensitive to. Alright well. Okay. Sorry. Alright. Okay. Okay. We haven't even thought of it yet. This scripture, I have not been able to get this out of my mind, and I have not been looking for it. We did read it not too long ago in our Victory Bible reading, but look at chapter 23, verse 13. During harvest time, three of the thirty chief men came down to David at the cave of Adullam, while a band of Philistines was encamped in the valley of Rephaim. At that time, David was in the stronghold, or the fortress, and the Philistine garrison was at Bethlehem. David longed for water and said, O that someone would get me a drink of water from the well near the gate of Bethlehem. So the three mighty men broke through the Philistine lines, drew water from the well near the gate of Bethlehem, and carried it back to David. But he refused to drink it. Instead, he poured it out before the Lord. Far be it from me, O Lord, to do this, he said. Is it not the blood of men who went at the risk of their lives? And David would not drink it. Just before we separate, I want to let you know something today that's deeply in my heart, and it has to do with what's most important to me, and I see in this passage of Scripture. Saturday night services, family festivals, home groups, companies, potatoes, all these ways that we're trying just to communicate. Folks, what I see happening here is what I want with all my heart. What I see happening here is I see a man of God who is so linked in heart with other men, women of God, that though the mission is something that they long to see happen, though the mission is so driving that these men would even risk their lives, literally risk their lives to fulfill it, that they would leave the comfort of the fortress, of the garrison, of the stronghold, and break through the enemy lines to just... And obviously, the picture of the well of water isn't just to get it... I mean, he could have had water, water, because they all were there, but there was something about drinking from the well. David's well in Bethlehem was symbolic of the deep nature of his relationship to God who provided for him. Folks, though that mission was so... And David said, I longed for it, and I want you to know I long to see this church be all God wants it to be. I long for us to see the vision fulfilled. As I talked on Wednesday, between the promise and... I want to see that with all my heart. I want you to know something today. I long to see men and women who are so committed that they'll lay down their lives for one another. But I was most touched by what David did. Because when they brought the water back to him, notice he just didn't pour it on the ground and say, oh, I can't do that. Notice, you can miss this. He poured it out, verse 16, he poured it out before the Lord. I want you to hear my heart today as I say to you. You see, what David did, he took the love, the love of the men that served him with their lives, and said, Lord, this water symbolizes their love. And rather than spend their love on my mission and my goals, I want to pour out that love to you. Do you see that? That love is now my offering back to you. And I tell you, that has so stuck in my spirit. And I want you to hear me today as I say to you, as wonderful as our ministries are and as our mission is and so on, I want you to know that your love, as you participate with me and my spirit, I want to just come in with you that I'll not spend your love on my desires. I'll not spend your love on the mission. You're more important than the mission. And I know in the intensity of what we have going on here, sometimes that just kind of gets me confused a bit. Every once in a while, I spend a little time with someone who's feeling burnout. I just need a break, need to get away a little bit, need to step back from ministry. My prayer always is that more than doing the job or fulfilling the task, though that's important, I believe we're called to do it, what's most important is that our love continues to support and strengthen one another. And the very offering of that love poured out to God is the sweetest offering we can give. It's the most beautiful thing that we can give to God, is the love relationship that we have with each other. So as we look into the summer, and who knows where we'll be in the fall, and who knows what's going to happen next door and the property and all that, let me tell you that I read this and I say, Lord, I want mighty men like that. Lord, I want to fulfill the mission, and I want to break through the enemy lines, and I want to rescue the perishing. But bottom line is I want to be able to say I love you, and I'd never spend that on what my goals are. You're the most important thing in this church, you are. And that's the way it will be. I believe that's what pleases the Lord the most. Let's stand together, shall we? Father, it's a humbling thing to look into the Scriptures and see that kind of devotion. I thank you for the devotion of these here saints here today. Lord, their very presence here is a statement of the fact that they're willing to pay a price on a beautiful day to come. They want the kingdom of God. Lord, I confess to you, part of me wants to retreat back into the comfort zone, Lord. Back to where I know I'll be liked and I'll hear the... That's the way I like it, Pastor, words. Lord, I pray that in the midst of stepping out and doing things that we've never even thought about doing before, that the love between us would never ever be sacrificed as a result. Reduce us to love, Jesus, and let us be demonstrations to the world of what love can do. Let's get in, Jesus. We promised you... We're not going to keep you over this time. Pastor Scott wants to give you the harvesters and all your manuals. I want to give the ministry leaders some material. We'll be out the door at 10 o'clock, I promise you. If you'll, ministry people, Doug and others that I see, if you'll run with me down to the family room, and everyone will get a copy of the newsletter as we go. Folks, I'll hang around a bit if anyone wants to talk. I'm hoping for your comments and appreciate them. And let's believe the Lord for a great day tomorrow. Dave, you have a question? Okay. All right. So, harvesters and home group leaders, everyone stay here. Move up a little bit. Oh, pass in your yellow sheets. That's it, that's what you're doing. Yes, pass them into the center, please, and we'll gather them. Oh, Paul, did you get that? Yeah, here we go. Do you have the list? Well, I'll tell you what, because of time, I'll do it on Wednesday night. I'll have to do it on Wednesday night. I'll do it. We'll be reviewing this on Wednesday night anyhow. So go ahead, ministry leaders, down to the family room, and I'll, Pastor Scott, love you.